Comments on: Aerial photography, cock fighting and vodka bottles http://www.systemed.net/blog/?p=100 Church organ, maps, canals, cider. Sat, 07 Aug 2010 21:17:09 +0100 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: » A Brace of Copyright Dilemmas SJ’s Longest Now http://www.systemed.net/blog/?p=100&cpage=1#comment-1020 » A Brace of Copyright Dilemmas SJ’s Longest Now Tue, 20 Apr 2010 16:17:25 +0000 http://www.systemed.net/blog/?p=100#comment-1020 [...] have copyright?  If so, what are the risks? Many different perspectives tangle with one another. One comprehensive blog posts posits that it may be alright under copyright, but not socially acceptable in open mapping circles [...] [...] have copyright?  If so, what are the risks? Many different perspectives tangle with one another. One comprehensive blog posts posits that it may be alright under copyright, but not socially acceptable in open mapping circles [...]

]]> By: James Michael DuPont http://www.systemed.net/blog/?p=100&cpage=1#comment-939 James Michael DuPont Thu, 25 Mar 2010 19:34:13 +0000 http://www.systemed.net/blog/?p=100#comment-939 I would like to find other people who are interested and start to trace the geoeye sat data into its own dedicated server. Basically we would use osm software to create a separate layer for the traced data. this would not be compatible with osm and the license would restrict its combining with any other layer. it could only be used as a comparison layer against osm. basically I would like to trace features and contours and polygons from the sat imagery tag them and then compare that against osm. we could then find missing streets and areas that are shifted over. mike I would like to find other people who are interested and start to trace the geoeye sat data into its own dedicated server. Basically we would use osm software to create a separate layer for the traced data. this would not be compatible with osm and the license would restrict its combining with any other layer. it could only be used as a comparison layer against osm.

basically I would like to trace features and contours and polygons from the sat imagery tag them and then compare that against osm. we could then find missing streets and areas that are shifted over.

mike

]]> By: Robert http://www.systemed.net/blog/?p=100&cpage=1#comment-844 Robert Mon, 30 Nov 2009 13:26:33 +0000 http://www.systemed.net/blog/?p=100#comment-844 Another case which touched on originality was Bridgeman Art Library Ltd v Corel Corp 25 Fed Supp 421 (1999). Applying UK law, the judge found that as photographs of public-domain works of art claimed to be as accurate as possible copies of those works, they lacked originality under UK law and so could not be protected. The Fitch case showed that lighting of a scene could generate copyright in a photographic image. Where this leaves aerial photographs is unclear. Given the effort in taking them and rectifying them, they will certainly be copyright in the US. There may also be a separate database right in aerial photographs in respect of the coordinates of the points represented. Fitch confirmed that human extraction and interpretation of information from a photograph does not infringe copyright. The greater the transformation wrought by the human, the less open the process is to challenge. Validating a derived map by walking the streets and interpreting features creates a new artistic work with its own copyright. I would be dubious about automating the transformation process as this could infringe the database right. Another case which touched on originality was Bridgeman Art Library Ltd v Corel Corp 25 Fed Supp 421 (1999). Applying UK law, the judge found that as photographs of public-domain works of art claimed to be as accurate as possible copies of those works, they lacked originality under UK law and so could not be protected.

The Fitch case showed that lighting of a scene could generate copyright in a photographic image. Where this leaves aerial photographs is unclear. Given the effort in taking them and rectifying them, they will certainly be copyright in the US.

There may also be a separate database right in aerial photographs in respect of the coordinates of the points represented.

Fitch confirmed that human extraction and interpretation of information from a photograph does not infringe copyright. The greater the transformation wrought by the human, the less open the process is to challenge. Validating a derived map by walking the streets and interpreting features creates a new artistic work with its own copyright.

I would be dubious about automating the transformation process as this could infringe the database right.

]]> By: P http://www.systemed.net/blog/?p=100&cpage=1#comment-790 P Tue, 27 Oct 2009 16:19:50 +0000 http://www.systemed.net/blog/?p=100#comment-790 Firstly, I'll admit that I've not read this *very* closely, and that this comment may therefore be a waste of everyone's time. However... Your reading of the legalities of tracing and rectification seem reasonable (IANAL). The query that came to mind, though, concerns the part in the ToS (10.6) that forbids 'mass downloads of coordinates'. While the location of geographical features is a fact, and you make a case that tracing the _relative_ position of features is permissible, could they argue that since the images *are* positioned accurately, when tracing from them each tracing point is a coordinate download? (I feel that I may not have expressed myself very well here, but don't have much time to rephrase - sorry.) I would hope that they wouldn't, and as you show, in some cases they haven't - but wikimapia, for example, retains the Google logo on the imagery, whereas OSM wouldn't (and as pointed out above, OSM is a 'competitor'). It would be really nice, though, to get a definitive statement of their views. It's good to see that your Data Liberation suggestion is far and away the most popular. Firstly, I’ll admit that I’ve not read this *very* closely, and that this comment may therefore be a waste of everyone’s time. However…

Your reading of the legalities of tracing and rectification seem reasonable (IANAL). The query that came to mind, though, concerns the part in the ToS (10.6) that forbids ‘mass downloads of coordinates’. While the location of geographical features is a fact, and you make a case that tracing the _relative_ position of features is permissible, could they argue that since the images *are* positioned accurately, when tracing from them each tracing point is a coordinate download? (I feel that I may not have expressed myself very well here, but don’t have much time to rephrase – sorry.)

I would hope that they wouldn’t, and as you show, in some cases they haven’t – but wikimapia, for example, retains the Google logo on the imagery, whereas OSM wouldn’t (and as pointed out above, OSM is a ‘competitor’).

It would be really nice, though, to get a definitive statement of their views. It’s good to see that your Data Liberation suggestion is far and away the most popular.

]]> By: Hermann http://www.systemed.net/blog/?p=100&cpage=1#comment-708 Hermann Sat, 19 Sep 2009 11:40:12 +0000 http://www.systemed.net/blog/?p=100#comment-708 There’s one further issue not mentioned until now I think: competition law! If you traced Google’s aerial images to create maps, you would do it as a direct competitor in the market of map and map data providers. Google’s maps are placed right next (or even on top) of the aerial images. I don’t think you could claim to use “only” the images and then make a competing product of it and offer it for a lower price – completely Free as opposed to an ad-model. There’s one further issue not mentioned until now I think: competition law! If you traced Google’s aerial images to create maps, you would do it as a direct competitor in the market of map and map data providers. Google’s maps are placed right next (or even on top) of the aerial images. I don’t think you could claim to use “only” the images and then make a competing product of it and offer it for a lower price – completely Free as opposed to an ad-model.

]]> By: Système D » Vote for the Data Liberation Front to tackle aerial imagery http://www.systemed.net/blog/?p=100&cpage=1#comment-694 Système D » Vote for the Data Liberation Front to tackle aerial imagery Fri, 11 Sep 2009 14:05:00 +0000 http://www.systemed.net/blog/?p=100#comment-694 [...] by saying that tracing from their imagery is ok - just like Yahoo have done. Several posts ago, I looked into the legalities of this and concluded there’s nothing in law stopping them from doing so. It’s entirely their [...] [...] by saying that tracing from their imagery is ok - just like Yahoo have done. Several posts ago, I looked into the legalities of this and concluded there’s nothing in law stopping them from doing so. It’s entirely their [...]

]]> By: John http://www.systemed.net/blog/?p=100&cpage=1#comment-686 John Thu, 10 Sep 2009 02:27:49 +0000 http://www.systemed.net/blog/?p=100#comment-686 ToS, unlike laws, can't be applied retroactively because you would have no way to disagree and opt out and there is already case law against click through agreements deeming them less than legal and in this case you don't even have to agree to ToS to use their services. ToS, unlike laws, can’t be applied retroactively because you would have no way to disagree and opt out and there is already case law against click through agreements deeming them less than legal and in this case you don’t even have to agree to ToS to use their services.

]]> By: Roy http://www.systemed.net/blog/?p=100&cpage=1#comment-685 Roy Wed, 09 Sep 2009 21:56:32 +0000 http://www.systemed.net/blog/?p=100#comment-685 Ben - yes, Google could change the ToS in the future. But the question remains as to whether we should be legally tracing in the meantime... Surely a future change in ToS could not be applied retrospectively..? Ben – yes, Google could change the ToS in the future. But the question remains as to whether we should be legally tracing in the meantime…

Surely a future change in ToS could not be applied retrospectively..?

]]> By: Eugene http://www.systemed.net/blog/?p=100&cpage=1#comment-627 Eugene Sun, 14 Jun 2009 16:45:17 +0000 http://www.systemed.net/blog/?p=100#comment-627 Excellent piece! While reading through the article I ticked down mental notes about the Google TOS and Wikimapia. I was pretty impressed that you mentioned those two points later on in the article and was no longer left with unanswered questions! Excellent piece! While reading through the article I ticked down mental notes about the Google TOS and Wikimapia. I was pretty impressed that you mentioned those two points later on in the article and was no longer left with unanswered questions!

]]> By: Gustav F http://www.systemed.net/blog/?p=100&cpage=1#comment-609 Gustav F Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:21:05 +0000 http://www.systemed.net/blog/?p=100#comment-609 It is also worth noting that Google Earth has a tracing tool included. This, at the very least, indicates that some sort of tracing is allowed, and even ecouraged. Nowhere in the terms, does it say that Google have any rights whatever to these traces. It is also worth noting that Google Earth has a tracing tool included. This, at the very least, indicates that some sort of tracing is allowed, and even ecouraged. Nowhere in the terms, does it say that Google have any rights whatever to these traces.

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